Transcript of audio

part 1

00:02 Let me answer any questions about that. What’s concerning you, what’s happening, what are you thinking in terms of your final project revision?

00:12 Questions about it? Or like, hey this is what I’m thinking, will this work? We can chat for a few minutes about it.

00:19 Anything? Nothing? Okay, I’m like, I feel like I’m gonna get a lot of emails. Go ahead. So like mine is like a PowerPoint and I’m not sure how to revise. Well, let’s just talk as a class.

00:30 Um, so let’s go to this. That was a lot of information, but I can speak to this as we go through it.

00:40 Okay, so talk to me and share out with everybody what you did in your first project. You created a PowerPoint and what was it about?

00:46 Um, men getting discriminated against. It was what? Men getting discriminated. Men getting discriminated against for what? Physical appearance. Physical appearance in terms of fashion choices, style, haircut

01:00 grooming? Okay. Um, so, why do you think that’s an important subject? So, let’s talk about relevance first or how people are compelled to take a position on the issue.

01:16 Why is that even important? Because it’s happening and it’s only increasing as the years go by. What makes you say that?

01:23 I see it on social media. Okay. What happens on social media? I’m asking a lot of questions. What happens on social media?

01:29 What are people saying? Uh, like people are rating other guys down based on like based on who? It’s not that.

01:37 It’s just like how they’re dressed. Like if they’re like skinny jeans or like why are you wearing skinny jeans? If you’re, if they’re like wearing like, like a jean that are up to my ankle and if they’re like I just saw a video yesterday and I was like the comments are like- this is perfect.

01:53 Okay, so there are certain things being aligned with gender and expectations in terms of how masculine men are supposed to dress?

02:11 Is that what you’re saying? Yeah. And you’re saying it’s what? Is it a problem? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing?

02:18 What are you saying? Uh, it’s like a problem. It’s a because um, it’s affecting a lot of men. How so?

02:28 What I’m getting at and why I’m asking all these questions is because you’re being overly general. And this is good that we’re talking through this because if you were to write this this is exactly how I’d respond.

02:35 Like you’re being overly general, what do you mean? Tell me. Like be more specific. So, like um, I’m gonna give you an example.

02:41 So like in and is wearing skinny jeans, people will make very hurtful comments like they would assume their sexuality just by the way they’re dressed.

02:52 Okay so there’s something in terms of gender and fashion choices or styling and sexuality or sexual preferences or orientation. There’s something happening that’s aligning the two things.

03:03 And is that, is that a problem or is it unfair, is it, does it not make sense, is it, what do you, what do you say?

03:11 Um, you can’t like judge someone by the way they’re dressed. Why? Why not? Because like that’s how they like to dress.

03:20 You know what I mean, like so what’s the problem? Everybody does it. I know you know the answer. I’m just, just being annoying.

03:35 Wait, what’d you ask? Like so what’s the problem? Everybody does it. Like everybody has a judgment call, everybody has an opinion.

03:41 What’s the problem with sharing it? I mean are we going to censor this for everybody now, or what? I mean like.

03:47 Ok, Elon Musk. What? I said OK, Elon Musk. Hahahaha. Yeah, you sounded very ya know. Yeah. But, I’m doing this for a reason.

03:55 Like I’m just being, playing dumb as I am with the kids. What’s the problem? So, like the problem is that people are like.

04:04 That’s like, they’re associating the way people look with a certain sexuality and that’s like a problem like in today’s world, because I feel like sexuality is like getting everything, but you can’t just like judge someone.

04:22 You can’t judge someone. Cuz you’re saying it’s inaccurate. Yeah. And unfair and discriminatory. Right? Exactly. Ok. So, ok, so I think we’re getting there.

04:41 With that being said that it’s good unfair and it’s discriminatory and it’s an inaccurate representation or an inaccurate correlation between two things that are that are unrelated.

04:54 Um, who do you think this is relevant for relevant to is it the guys that are receiving the unfair judgment?

05:08 Is it the people making the unfair judgments? Who should be the receiver of a message about this? Like who should be a target audience that’ll make like, I’m not going to say anything. Go ahead.

05:19 Who do you think this should be directed at then? You want to say something? So, I was thinking to prove to me serious like- Why? Because they’re the ones that are like floating in.

05:31 Like for example, Zara jeans, they’re like well-known to be uh, more like, skinny like type of you know, people often sign on to their own and actually I’ve seen- people say that, uh, they buy from them.

05:48 I’m going to pause, I’m going to put it on pause for one second to make a correction. Zara’s fast fashion, okay.

05:54 So what Zara does is they take what’s already established in the larger fashion European houses and they recreate it at a lower cost.

06:01 So they’re not the ones putting out the style. They’re mimicking the styles that are put out by larger names. I just… see what I mean.

06:12 No, I know. I’m just making a correction because this would be something where I’m like well you’re actually not spot on in terms of Zara perpetuating this idea.

06:19 They’re not. They’re just making uhm. Well, technically, wouldn’t they be promoting what you wan them to promote? Yes, they are just piggy-backing. Exactly, but they’re still going against the grain of what I guess is popular and they continue to sell skinny jeans and it’s helping the cause that you’re trying to talk about, if you’re saying

06:43 that, if you say you’ll get judged for wearing Zara jeans, but… Why do they? Okay, so let’s like kind of get into that, why do they do it with that?

06:53 Because it’s fashionable. And what it, it’s fashionable. It’s fashionable to girls, not guys. I don’t know. What’s what the society’s saying?

07:04 I would say. I think they get it. There’s a layer of complexity that’s not anyone. Like I’m sure if you compare fashion here to fashion here it’s totally different.

07:18 Totally different. And so it depends on the context that you’re talking about. Who? where? Umm when? So like what can be good here is about their vice versa.

07:34 These are all really good points. Everything that we’re saying is all good points. So with that, cause you brought up something really good about what’s good here might not be good there in vice versa.

07:45 And. And we’ll be talking about society versus American society and American fashion versus European fashion. Who would be the receiver of your message then?

07:54 Who would you be talking to and why? I mean obviously you’re gonna need to do what? Like narrow into what?

08:03 Speaking of American audiences. You to answer this? Okay. In who in these audiences are you gonna speak into a certain gender?

08:10 A certain person? A certain person that believes a certain thing? So you’re getting in? Okay. What are your thoughts? So I feel like your audience wouldn’t be the people who aren’t getting the screen because that would make sense.

08:24 Yeah. What does that matter like? I mean I am not being insensitive to their feelings. I’m just saying I don’t know that they’re the ones that need to affect change with them, right?

08:32 Okay. So, actually it’s really a lot umm moving differently. Okay. And what is their position on it? Can you like try to make a statement about that? 08:41 Do think that it’s permanent to be like getting your eyebrows waxed? Um. . . Right. It’s like moving. There is a bit of a of toxic masculinity in our culture.

08:51 Yeah. Yeah. Great term. Slightly overused. Great term. Yeah. Yeah. Something about in terms of that it’s not a healthy thing.

09:03 It’s not a good thing that we are. . . Like kind of umm. What do I want to call it? Putting, putting genders into camps and saying this is what you’re allowed to do, this is how you’re allowed to act, this is how you’re, what you’re allowed to wear.

09:22 And same over here. Right? Okay. So. Okay. Okay. Okay. We got the first one kind of now. Alright. I know where we’re talking to and why.

09:32 How do we best talk to those people then? What would be effective? Think about circulation and what did I say about circulation? I mean how somebody gets their information or how they receive communication.

09:47 In what mode would that be and how would they be exposed to this? And why would they be apt to stop, read, watch, or listen to it?

09:55 I don’t know that you have the answer right now. And this goes out to everybody having heard what he said about his project.

10:03 What do you think? Is social media of its- Is there or not? Is an online space good or not? Is there somewhere else?

10:21 Why is that? I feel like nowadays that…

10:35 In the current culture, in the current climate of 20, the 2000s, you know you can see some of that in the back of it.

10:46 But, I just look- I think that’s an essay to get all of them. People’s attention. I’m not you can get it.

10:54 With regard to our current digital culture, yeah. Okay. Um, so yeah. I also see this as a sort of response.

11:07 If you’re getting these messages- that way because you said you even saw a video the other day or a TikTok or you know like an Instagram or like whatever it is that you’re seeing that’s perpetuating this negative on this negative perception of men who dress in more feminine ways, right?

11:25 If you’re getting that message in that space, responding in that- The same space might be wise. So, cause it kind of creates two sides of the coin.

11:34 Maybe? What do you think? Has anything better from anybody that looks- it’s been listening or have any thoughts kind of going around circulating your head?

11:44 Yeah. I work at a clothing store. Okay. So. Do you work at Zara? No. I work in Somerset. I work at Psycho Bunny.

 

part 2

0:00 But as my store manager puts it, you only apply gender to what someone’s wearing by the person that’s wearing it.

0:06 Like you only apply gender once you buy and wear it, right? There’s no gender with clothing It’s just clothing. You apply the gender once the person wears it Wait, I feel like you can tell what gender they’re going for the second you look at it.

0:19 Why? I’m like a three-year-old. Why? It’s a sparkly, it’s a sparkly bead hoodie with a bunny on it, You wouldn’t, people just assume it’s men’s, because it’s a traditional men’s clothing store, but you wouldn’t know otherwise outright, unless you saw the tag on It just looks like a normal hoodie with

0:57 glitters. If I could respond, I would say a lot now as we’re moving towards a more open society, where it’s more fluid.

1:05 I feel like the fashion is going more androgynous, where it’s not necessarily that, but we’re still dealing with a culture where we are socially constructing definitions for different categories for clothes, for children’s toys, for all these different things.

1:20 We’re assigning the same androgynous and based on, you know, historical preferences. And so I think that’s still a problem. It might not be evident in your store because it is more androgynous-based, you know, style of clothing, um, but you can still see it in a lot Oh yeah, for sure.

1:36 For sure. I mean, you, our stuff is unisex technically, but like, all the clothes are, you know, for men, technically.

1:43 Like, the hoodies are cut for men. You can hear, I hear my manager complain about it constantly because she’s a female and she has to wear clothes.

1:49 She’s like, these- Because they’re boxier, or- And also- It’s the waist, like it’s way too tight for her, and it’s like, okay, I can’t- And I’d also say that, you know, as we’ve been moving, you know, men’s clothes is more acceptable for women than men’s clothes.

2:03 Historically, women’s clothes are for men. So there is sort of a double standard there too. But what I heard come up in comments you just made, as well as Megan, was social constructs, historically, what things have, you know, been like in an assumption.

2:20 I heard the term assumption. In my own personal experience, like, I wasn’t allowed to wear skinny jeans growing up, because that’s too feminine.

2:26 And I’m just like, I’m a skinny person. Me wearing straight tight pants looks God awful. And then I finally just got fed up and while my dad was on a business trip, I bought skinny jeans for 20 bucks at Hollister.

2:39 And I’ve just been wearing them ever since. He hasn’t said enough words yet. What did you want I think another important word that Megan mentioned was fluidity.

2:49 Uh huh. We should get into that. If you’re going to talk about this entire topic. If what? If you’re going to talk about this entire topic.

2:56 Yeah. Fluidity. Exactly. And preference and assumptions and yeah. Like there’s a lot. There’s a lot of terms that you should be mindful of making sure to use.

3:06 And to use with care. With care. And being fair. Um. But yeah. I think that um. I think we digressed too much though.

3:19 Because I said can you see this happening anywhere else? Or any other spaces where this is a message could go back or he could speak directly at the people that are so discriminatory or judgmental.

3:28 And you started talking about your story and then we digressed into other things which were all helpful and beneficial. But we were gonna say something about where he built the message.

3:35 And I missed it. I mean is this. Really is this. You apply the gender to the clothes when you put it on.

3:40 Yeah and I know that’s where you started. Okay. That’s really it. So. Okay. Let me run with that for a second then.

3:46 We were talking about social media. But what about campaigns? What about ad campaigns or specific fashion houses or companies or designers or manufacturers putting messages out?

4:01 I don’t know. It’s a thought. It’s more, um, professional in nature. Do you see what I’m doing? Yeah. Like maybe it’s, maybe it’s a way that somebody assumes, um, social responsibility for this.

4:18 Like, does anyone know what happened with Balenciaga the past week? Oh my gosh. I was very confused. I walked in the door and I like, do you know Balenciaga?

4:30 I’m like, Like, so, again, um, you know, like, it’s happened for umpteen years. It’s happened for decades. You know, uh, the Balenciaga designers and um, fashion houses get behind causes, or try to promote things, or try to be more mindful of their manufacturing practices and be more sustainable or go

4:54 more green, or, I could go on for hours. You know, they could get behind all different things. But, what if they got behind something like this, like, hey, wait, stop, can you think?

5:03 I, I’m trying to think of somebody who’s going to do this, done that, that’s kind of taken social justice aspect, or like been more about like, um, not being as gendered in their, what?

5:18 That’s tricky. Yeah. That’s tricky, because it’s so associated with employment. Yeah.

 

part 3

0:00 We’re saying like about big designers, like people who like, build big designers, maybe that they like see them sing, and then maybe make big, there’s a judgmental culture, maybe they could uh, shift their perspective.

0:15 I’m trying to, yeah, like no, I think that that’s a good way to go, I’m just trying to think of anybody that you could mimic or look at or.

0:20 I mean Harry Styles dresses very, yeah, but he’s one person not representing one, I mean I guess, he’s advocating in a way, yeah.

0:29 Oh, maybe over there. Four. I think we’ve given some suggestions and some, I don’t know that this is becoming too big to think about, I’m just trying to give you ways that orient your work to be purposeful and meaningful and situated in ways that seem to make sense that it would happen in real time and

1:36 real space outside the university.